It’s the Academy team’s turn to take to the microphones this week on The Sales Transformation Podcast as Dr Louise Sutton, Hilary Watkinson, and Natalie Murray discuss the power coaching has to transform careers.
The team discuss some of the misconceptions around coaching, and share their personal experiences with coaching including some of their favourite books, tools, and frameworks. They also emphasise the importance of creating a coaching culture within your wider organisation and how listening is an extremely important skill.
Highlights include:
- [02:29] – The difference between mentoring and coaching
- [15:35] – Listening and coaching skills are useful outside of work, too
- [28:58] – Coaching can take as little as 5 minutes
Connect with Louise Sutton on LinkedIn
Connect with Natalie Murray on LinkedIn
Connect with Hilary Watkinson on LinkedIn
Join the discussion in our Sales Transformation Forum group.
Make sure you're following us on LinkedIn and Twitter to get updates on the latest episodes! Also, take our Mindset Survey and find out if you are selling to customers the way they want to be sold to today.
Full episode transcript:
Please note that transcription is done by AI and may contain errors.
Louise: Okay, so Natalie, Hillary, here we are finally. We've been talking for ages about having a podcast on coaching. Mm-hmm. You know, just to have a discussion about everything that we believe and support in terms of a coaching approach, uh, in the workplace.
And, uh, we're here. We've made it. That's fantastic. Um, so we're all part of the academy. Um, we're all involved in the delivery of our professional education programs. We're all accredited coaches, so I think there's quite a lot that hopefully we can draw on during this session. Um, but just to begin with, shall we introduce ourselves?
Just one line, really. You know, what we do and that'd be great. Yeah. So, Natalie,
Natalie: let's start with you. So I'm Natalie Murray. I'm one of the apprenticeship directors at Consalia. Um, and I deliver on our level six. Apprenticeship program and support on the level seven through the program specifically helping them get ready for their final assessment.
Louise: Perfect. Thank you. And
Hilary
Hilary: So Hilary watkinson, um, I'm program director on, uh, with KIN and I tutor on R level six as well as our level seven. And obviously our ILM. Level five coaching program.
Louise: Brilliant. And for those of you that don't know me, I'm Louise, uh, Sutton, and I'm the academy director here at Consalia.
I know lots of our podcasts are usually with Phil and Will, so it's, you're seeing the other side of the organization, uh, or hearing the other side of the organization today. Um, but as academy director, uh, we're within the academy, we're responsible for delivering all the accredited programs. So we have our level six and level seven apprenticeships.
We have an exec master's program for sales leaders and we have our ILM level five coaching program, which I'm sure we'll talk about. And actually we
Hilary: also get pulled into delivering on our consulting programs as well. Oh we do? So yeah. Many strings to our bow. Yeah. Jack of all trades,
Louise: but hopefully masters of many as well.
Okay. So, um, let's start. So let's talk coaching and maybe that's, um. The place to start. Natalie, can I hand over to you?
Natalie: Yeah, well, thinking about this, we know that there are lots of misconceptions about coaching and what it really is. So, uh, I thought we could just start Hilary by hearing from you. Yeah. Um, can you just clarify for us what we mean by coaching specifically in business and, and specifically special sales?
Hilary: Yeah, I think, interesting question 'cause a lot of people come on the program and they're senior sales leaders, senior sales managers, and they think they're coaching their team and. We'll go around the beginning of the program and ask them, um, what they do and how big their teams are and how regularly they coach.
And some of them will say, I coach the team every day. And I think what they realize, we ask them, um, to mark themselves on what we call the stairway of competence, which begins with unconscious incompetence all the way up the level to unconscious competence when you're doing something so well, you realize you're doing it and they often think they're doing a pretty good job of coaching, but what happens?
As the days progresses, they realize that they are telling or giving advice. And often as a senior sales person, you've been promoted 'cause you're good at your job. Mm-hmm. So of course what you want to do with your team is to tell them what to do. So that's generally what they are doing. They might be mentoring as in giving advice or they might actually be telling or training, but they're not actually always coaching.
So there's quite a light bulb for a lot of them when they realize. That coaching is different and perhaps a different style of management to what they've perhaps adopted in the past. Now, in sales, you can't always coach. We know that there's times and pressures where you do have to tell, but actually the journey of learning to be a coach as a manager is, is what we see them go through for these, for the process when they, when they take part in one of our programs.
Mm. And and that's where they realize that actually coaching is not what they thought it was. Mm.
Yeah.
Natalie: Louise, anything to add?
Louise: Yeah, so I think I'm just thinking then we do all of that in two days. Actually. I know they go away and put it all into practice for their. Portfolio, but it is an incredible two day shift in mindset, isn't it?
For many of them. But I think yeah, we, we obviously there are a lot of coaching definitions out there, but I think, uh, one that I think is always really impactful is, um, the Jenny Rogers quote when she talks about coaching is about facilitating the learning. And that's what your role is as a coach. It's not to tell.
Than what to do is to facilitate their learning on what they should be aiming to achieve. Um, raising self-awareness, so perhaps bringing in different perceptions and, you know, coming up with choices because as adults, so you know, they want to be able to choose the right way, so. I think, you know, it's, it's really helping them understand all of that, isn't it?
Mm-hmm. Through those, through those sessions. But I do think it, it is really interesting how so many people come with a different, um, concept, idea of what coaching is and how they think they may be coaching already. And, um, we find that all the time on, I think every cohort we have that. Um, but I just wondered, Natalie, you know, you've completed the program mm-hmm.
The ILM program last year. How did you find putting that learning. And into practice, you know, what was your biggest learning actually? Yeah.
Natalie: So first of all, I loved the program and it was great to have the opportunity to do a bit of work based learning myself after having talked to our, you know, students so much about that over the past couple of years.
Um, and I guess putting the learnings into practice. It was easy in one sense because I had to do it. Uh, you have to do 18 hours of coaching as you know, on the program before you get your qualifications. So it was easy from that perspective. Um, but it actually quite daunting or quite nerve wracking, I guess, when I was preparing for those conversations.
Because you want it to be really valuable to your coachee. Um, you want, but at the same time, you don't know what you're going to get from them. You don't know what conversations you're gonna have to guide and directions you're gonna have to go in. Um, so I mean, there's lots of great support from my tutors in preparing for those conversations in helping them be as effective, you know, in the execution as you could prepare for.
Um, but I think. It's, yeah, it was nerve wracking, but I quickly saw that actually anybody can coach to some degree. You know, if you go in with that coaching mindset, start there and absorb everything that you are being. Taught, then you, everyone can do it to, to some degree. Um, and I think my biggest learning, and you've already touched on this, is that my advice, probably not as good as I thought that it was.
You know, even when it's coming from a good place, you're wanting to help people solve, um, you know, getting them to come to the conclusions, the solutions themselves,
Hilary: rather than giving the advice.
Natalie: Yeah. And the not telling, the listening, the good questions, more questions or more good questions. Um, you know, things we talk to our students about a lot anyway, but really practicing that, uh, easier said than done sometimes.
Hilary: What about you when you were learning to coach Louise? What was your kind of biggest. Light bulb moment if there was one?
Louise: Oh gosh. Oh, there were many. Um, I think so. I came from a consulting background, so, um, you know, I was used to telling people what to do as a consultant. This is what you should be doing, you should try doing this.
So not giving that advice was so hard. And, um, you know, I literally had to sit on my hands sometimes. And that was the way to remind myself. Not to tell. I just needed a sign, something to, to tell me. Um, so that was definitely, um, a, a huge learning. Um, and I think as well linked to that, um, the power of silence, you know, putting those really impactful pauses into conversations, giving the coachee time to think about what they've said or time to think about, did they really.
Mean what they said and just thinking time. And I, you know, people find that really awkward. They find silence really awkward. But it is just the most powerful approach I think, in coaching. Um, and I guess linked to that is, um. The beauty of level two listening. So listening to understand and not just to respond.
And I think, so three, they were the biggest ones when I was really learning how to coach, I think. Yeah. What about you, Hilary?
Hilary: Yeah, I mean all of those things. I think for me, one of the, one of the biggest light bulbs was expect the unexpected because you go into a coaching session and. You might have an idea of some of the questions you're gonna ask your coachee, particularly if we're building on from a, an ongoing relationship.
But suddenly one question can take you down or can take the coachee down a completely different route. And it's, and it's the power of those questions, um, and, and where they might take you. So for me, it's expect, the unexpected is probably my. Biggest learning.
Louise: And I love that actually not knowing what's gonna come out of a coaching conversation.
Mm-hmm. Um, I think it's part of the fun of coaching, isn't it?
Natalie: So you say fun, I said nerve wracking at the start. So I think that is, and maybe as you become more experienced, then that does, there's a tipping point. I wonder where you go
Hilary: as it becomes more natural, you get better at asking the questions and just getting into the, into the moment of coaching.
Where are you doing most of your coaching, Natalie, how are you finding it?
Natalie: So I'm loving it consciously, you know, putting it into practice where I can, and that's mostly in our workshops with our students, uh, level six students, um, and then all the follow up sessions that we have with them. Um, and it's that really trying to help them help themselves, um, take the most out of the learnings.
Um, helping them with their time management, with their improved performance. Mm-hmm. Um, and our level six students, they come to us early in their careers. They've taken on an academic qualification alongside, um, a day job. And it's a lot. Uh, so I think that it plays a big part in helping them. Meet, manage the expectations of the program.
Um, and it's really helped, I've noticed a lot with, um, the relationships that I'm building with them. Uh, 'cause they see that, you know, I trust them that they're going to be able to find the solution themselves. Um, and I do feel that that empowers them and, and to help part of their development
Louise: it is part of their development for sure.
You're helping them become self learners, independent learners, and they can carry those skills into the workplace too. So yeah, definitely. We, um, you know, we have the Consalia way of teaching mm-hmm. And we, um, encourage all our tutors to coach. So the majority of our tutors are accredited coaches. And that Ali way is really about delivering the workshops in that coaching style as well as all your one-to-one conversations being in that coaching style.
And I do think it's a really important. Way of remembering how adults learn is. Yeah. They need to work it out for themselves. Mm-hmm. So I think the Consalia way really supports that kind of learning process for apprentices and for the students. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Um, yeah. So that's good. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the things we talk about on our program is how do you prepare to coach?
Hilary: So I think that's really important, particularly when you are a very busy sales manager. Sales leader. Um. And for me that's about giving yourself, um, some space before you go into a coaching session and getting in the moment, getting in the head space, leaving your own beliefs, preconceptions at the door, and truly focusing on that person.
Leave your phone, leave your notebook, and you've gotta be 100% present in the moment, I think to be. Properly coaching.
Louise: Mm-hmm. For sure. And I know some people have fed back, you know, afterwards that they've realized that it's making time to empty the head from the last meeting. Yeah. Before they can go into that coaching session.
Like you said, giving them space to shift from being either selling or leading to coaching. Very different, um, mindset needed and how to clear your mind. Yeah, really help yourself prepare to give them 100%. Yeah, because it's all about the coachee, isn't it? Exactly. It's not about you bringing your problems into the world and it's about what does the coachee want?
Hilary: And that, that's a real challenge when you're a busy manager. It's really being disciplined about that, I think, to be a good coach.
Natalie: And what do you enjoy most about it, Hilary?
Hilary: Oh gosh. Um, so many things. Uh, but I think the biggest thing for me is, is coaching is a life skill. And if you can teach people how to coach and once they know how to master the art of truly listening And then asking those magic, powerful questions, it's such a transferable skill into so many other situations. You know, if you've got children or teenagers or. You know, even with partners or or other friends, it's transferable to every single role and every single life situation. I, I just think that's fantastic.
Giving them that skill mm-hmm. For me is so rewarding. Mm.
Louise: I'm just smiling, thinking nearly every single role because Well, true. I know when I was learning how to coach my teenagers were like, do not coach me.
Hilary: But anyway, from there, and actually I had to manage that. All he ever did was ask me questions, which at was really infuriating balance.
Natalie: Yeah. But, um, yeah. And you, Louise, what do you enjoy most?
Louise: What do I enjoy most about coaching? Um, I love the fact that you can make a difference to the way that someone is thinking. You know, if they come into the room with a challenge or a, an issue and you can help them feel differently As they leave the room, I think that is just so rewarding.
Yeah. Um. I love in terms of teaching people how to coach, you know, through the workshops, just helping them appreciate that there is another way of communicating that it doesn't have to be tell the whole time and that yes, it might take a bit longer to begin with for the person to appreciate the coach, teacher to appreciate, um, the, the best way forward.
Ultimately, that's the most sustainable way because they'll become more independent and more confident. And I just think. You know, helping people to appreciate it's that way of leading and communicating is, is fantastic. And of course, you know, I think for, for the people on, on our workshops, it all happens at different times.
Some get it in the first day, the second day, some might only as they're doing their 18 hours of coaching to say really begin to appreciate the benefits. Um, but I was holding a, a supervision session the other day and, um, one of, uh, the coach, he said to me how it has totally changed the way. They're communicating with their team, um, and how they're managing the team.
Um, but also that as, as Hillary said, it has, they've got young children, not teenagers, but also how it's helped them change how they're parenting, you know, again, dealing with talking to their younger children. Um, so I love, as you say, that you can apply this skill in so many places. Um, and it so many times
Hilary: you're kind of teaching people to be curious, aren't you, to ask questions and that's, that's such a lovely.
Yeah. Lovely skill to have and having a conversation with anyone you don't know to, we all like to be asked about ourselves. Yeah. About our lives. So if you, if you, you have that natural curiosity, um, that really lends you to being a good coach actually as well.
Louise: Do you know? And so many people say that when they've been coached in the sessions that we're, we're running, how fantastic it is to be really listened to.
That they haven't felt that good about being listened to for so long because it's that deeper listening that comes in. Because we rush around so much if we're not making the time to, to do that coaching. Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie: So it's also coaching. So one of the modules on our level seven senior sales leader apprenticeship.
Um, and I know in, um, when I'm working with those apprentices in the progress reviews or the catch ups we have with them. More often than not, it comes out as their favorite module, um, because they can see what you've been talking about, that impact and immediate benefit they get from it.
Hilary: Yeah, absolutely it is.
And
I think the other thing that we teach them is that if you are a manager who can develop that coaching style, it's gonna empower your team. They're gonna feel more trusted, but equally it's gonna give you more time because you're not trying to fix everything for them and answer all their questions for them.
You become, you have more time to become more strategic and do some of the things you want to do as a manager. Mm-hmm.
Natalie: Definitely.
Hilary: So yeah, you are right. They, they really do come back and say, wow, already we can see what a difference that will make.
Natalie: Yeah. And they go on then to have that as a focus one way or another, don't they?
In their, um, strategic business proposals, their master's dissertations often. So they do take that through.
Louise: Yeah, and quite a few come onto the ILM program after having completed that module.
Hilary: Yeah. And of course the ILM program, we're going into a lot more details, a lot more hours in terms of our teaching.
And we spent a lot of time recently doing, we developing tools for coaching. Um. That you can, that can go into a coaching session, have these kind of things up your sleeve. Yeah. Um, and I know we've probably all got favorite tools. Mine is the, uh, decision matrix, which I'm sure a lot of sales leaders would've come across.
But if somebody's got a lot of options and they're trying to make a decision about something and they dunno where to turn, I help walk them through by using, um, it's kind of a matrix sit situation where. Yeah, they will write down all the things they're trying to decide about and then have a, have a bank of criteria about things that are important to them.
So let's say you're going for a new job. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you might have some options of a new job. What might be important to you? Might it be salary or might it be work life balance, or might it be, uh, future progression. And I get them to give it a scale. Mm-hmm. And then rate each of the options according to the scale and it's kind of business tool.
But I'm finding it really useful. But I know. A lot of the tools that we talked to them about, particularly the last cohort of ILM students, they've all gone back and put them straight into practice already. Great. Um, I know you have a favorite Natalie.
Natalie: I do, I do. The one that I've used probably the most with all of my coaches, um, is the postcard from the future where you get your coachee to think about a time, say, let's say five years in the future.
Um, and they write to themselves saying what they're doing, why they love it. And the steps it took to get them there. Um, and it's just a really nice way to make them feel that that ideal is. Tangible and, you know, within their grasp. Um, and there was actually one coachee, uh, that he just, it really resonated with him and actually, uh, after those sessions, and largely based, not just on that, but largely based around that tool, he actually left his career, um, and has gone off into, uh, this other direction, which is really his passion and what he sees as his vocation.
Um, and he, he actually. Messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that with each step and each opportunity that he's exploring now on this new route, it brings him back to that tool and to the discussions we had around it. Um, which is lovely to hear. That's wonderful. Isn't so impactful. So that would definitely, how does that make you feel to think you've had that influence?
It's fantastic. Yeah. It's very satisfying. Yeah. Um, yeah. And it's just. Yeah, I just, I guess it makes you realize that there, the value you can bring and that that impact, as we've said, that you can have on other people's lives fit quite responsibility actually in some ways. But, uh, their choice though.
Their choice, it's always their choice.
Louise: Yeah, definitely. But, um, yeah, so I think, you know, yeah, we have a lot of good tools and frameworks that we introduce, but I think my go-to, um, perhaps it came outta my very first coaching. Program myself. My accreditation is, um, the performance equation, which, um, comes from Timothy Gallwey in The Inner Game of Tennis.
And so that's, um, that performance is your potential minus interference. And so then you can coach around what could those interferences be that are impacting you from performing or delivering to your optimum. And, you know, it could be, um, well, it could be anything that's outside of work as well as inside of work.
Um, but it could be, you know, you think about mind, body, and spirits. So there's all sorts of things. It could be distress, it could be their health, as I say. Um, just are you, are they working aligned to their values and their beliefs and, and, uh, or is the organization aligned to their values and beliefs? So there's so many things that you can unpick just through this very simple equation.
You know, is it stressful, a particular deal? You know, is it team member? You know, there's so much that can come out of just, well, what could the interferences be? Let's talk about them. What's the first one that you can think of? And then what's the next one? And of course, there's always that magic. What else question?
So what else is interfering? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, um. You know, but I think that, I think it's very powerful. It's very simple. Yeah. People understand it quite, quite easily. Um, and yeah, so I quite often bring that one in or what's just interfering with you today you can focus on in the moment, and is there something that interferes over the longer term so you can really approach it from different ways.
Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Yeah, so that's good. Interesting. Yeah. So Timothy Gallwey Inner Game of Tennis. Yes, that's one of my recommended books, but, um. What about you? Do you have a favorite book?
Natalie: Mm-hmm. I do. Yes. I was thinking about there, there lots out there. And you mentioned Jenny Rogers right at the start. Uh, invaluable on the program.
Yeah. Have her all of it. Could have put a lot of that in my assignments. Um, but for me, I think the other one that really stayed with me and I've gone back to the most is Michael Bungay Stanier's The Coaching Habit. Yeah. Yeah. Um, just because it's so. Simple. Yeah. Um, and he focuses on those seven questions that you could put into any daily conversation.
Um, and you just referred to a couple of them or the, the interference idea. So for him, that first one is, you know what's on your mind. Yeah. And it seems very simple. But just a great way to start getting your coachee to open up to you. Yeah. And then obviously the all question as well. And what else? Yeah.
Uh, so him, I would say again, he's about the curiosity and the not telling,
Hilary: but, but he almost dumbs it down, doesn't he? Mm. Because he says you are a lazy coach. Mm-hmm. The lazy coach. What I, what you need from me and what else? Yeah. And what. And what else? But it's so true when you put that in practice.
Yeah. And just getting, you can see them thinking,
Natalie: digging deeper, can't you to, to answer the question. And he has a great podcast as well. Yeah. And the two pages of MBS is a good one. And
Hilary: mine, you've already mentioned mine, and it build, it builds his way up, but builds a little bit on it. You can see them thinking that is time to think and the whole time to think.
And I think Nancy says, Listening to Ignite The Human Mind, Nancy Kline. I love that. And you can, as you. Watch that power of silence. You can literally see the cogs turning, can't you? Yeah. And I think from salespeople, you mentioned this earlier, Louise, you know, we love to talk, we love to fill the gaps. Mm.
To actually learn to step back and give that silence and that power of silence to someone. Mm. Um, oh, I thought that was fantastic. But that was a real, yeah. Life changing almost moment for me actually. Okay. Really, really great. Yeah.
Great author.
Louise: Yeah. No, she's really impactful. Um. So I have one that I recommend to people that are coming on the program, which is, um, a lovely thin book.
'cause I think it's not too overwhelming, so I always say unlike genuine always. Yeah, yeah. Um, which is The Tao of Coaching by Max Landsberg. Um, and yeah, well, I lent it to Eddie actually when, about two years ago. And he still, every time I ask him for it, he's like, oh, it's still at home. I read it and I'm like, come on, Gimme my book back.
But anyway, so he's obviously enjoying it too. Mm-hmm. But it is, it is just really practical and as I say, it's not overwhelming and it's full of tips and techniques and, um, I think it's just, you know, a really good go-to guide when, as you say at the beginning, you want a few questions, you want a few ideas.
What can you do? How can you approach coaching? And um, so that's one that I really recommend as well, which is good. Nice. Um, but also I guess the inner game of tennis, which I mentioned. Yeah. Um, and I think what I love about that too. Is that within that he talks about how you don't have to be an expert in something to be able to coach.
And I think that's always a good conversation. Is it in our workshops, when people think that you must know the subject to be able to coach about it or know the context or know, um, you know, the particular technology that maybe someone's concerned about and you don't. No. By asking those simple questions, you can coach and open up.
New thinking without being an expert. And that comes through really clearly in, um, well, they've got the Inner Game of Tennis and the Inner Game of Golf and the Inner Game Football, I think. But you don't have to be an expert. And I think that's something really important to,
Natalie: well, you're less likely to tell if you don't know what you are, if you're an expert in that field.
Absolutely. That makes it easier in some ways. Yeah. Yeah.
Louise: So that's good.
Hilary: Yeah. So one thing we haven't talked about yet is coaching supervision. Okay. I know you are doing lots of coaching supervision at the moment. So ILM. Students. Um, and obviously not just important for our students, but also for ourselves as.
Uh, continued professional development as coaches. Obviously supervision's really important.
Louise: Yeah. Yeah. So that CPD is important for coaches. Mm-hmm. And for the coachee all the way through. Um, and it, yeah. Supervision is, is really needed. You know, you've talked about when I said I enjoy sometimes what's unknown or what, what's gonna come outta the coaching session and not knowing, and you said that could be nerve wracking at the beginning.
Mm-hmm. And I think as a supervisor, you're there to support the coachee. And to help them really think about how is their coaching going and if they have any, um, conversations that they want to just, you know, get some insight into. Um, so it's really there to, um, support, um, to challenge them a little bit.
Mm-hmm. If they're, if they're just using the same model all the time or the same techniques to encourage them to use something different or to think about how they're approaching the conversations, um, you know, if they share that they're. Talking too much and still giving advice. You know, you can talk about how you can try and, and help them with that and coach them through, through that.
Um, so yeah, it's, it's really important and it's an opportunity to, uh, to, I think, to support them and, and it's really about giving them a different perspective. So the concept or the idea of coaching supervision is that you can help them look at that session with a different lens. So you might look at it from the lens of, well, the coachee, how do you think they felt about it?
How do you think they felt about that question? And then also thinking about it in terms of the whole process. So there are a number of models that as a seven I. Seven eye supervision model and there's a five lenses conversation model for supervision. But it's all about looking at things from a different perspective.
And I think it's really important as someone's, uh, learning how to be a coach, that they do that, that they're just not seeing it as a two-way thing, that they're gonna be different, uh, elements that impact it. So yeah, coaching's super important. Super important as you're learning, but even as a coach, you know, we can get into a habitual way of coaching and we need to be constantly refreshing.
Hilary: Absolutely. I'm always learning, as we say in coaching, always learning. Every session is something we learn about or something we might find we need to do differently or we did to do differently and it made a difference.
Louise: Yeah. Yeah. It's a good thing to do. So I think, is there anything else that we should be really mentioning?
Hilary: Um, I think one thing for me is people often say they don't have time to coach. They could, and one thing we talk to talk to people about is this sort of idea of corridor coaching or coaching in the moment. And, and that is very much, even if you only have five minutes, you are still able to have that coaching dialogue that.
Rather than telling somebody what they should be doing unless it's kind of urgent or an emergency situation or, but you know, somebody comes to you with a problem, says, what would you do? Well, can you help me? You can still have that coaching conversation with, with them? Yeah. What have you, what's the situation?
What are you doing about it? Okay. What are your options? What are you gonna do now that can take five minutes. Mm-hmm. You don't need an hour or a half an hour rigid coaching session. You can coach on the spot when you come out of a meeting, when you walk into the car.
Louise: Mm-hmm.
Hilary: You know, how did, how do you think that went?
What could we have done differently? It's all that phrasing. Um, and, and. Different way of thinking as a manager that I don't think we've kind of touched on. And that often people realize by the end of their coaching hours that actually they're already doing that in their day-to-day lives, and some of their teams are saying, well, you're not actually helping me anymore.
Mm-hmm. Or actually, you're not telling me anymore because I'm working it out for myself. And I think that's, that's a key message for me. Um, and I think one other thing for me, I, I was, you know, I'm really passionate about the lionesses and was so happy to see how successful they are and, and the way they talk about themselves as a team.
But of course, their coach, um, Sarina, uh, Sarina Wiegman, if you, she's got a book out at the moment, actually, and if you read about her, she talks all about believing in yourself. Not being afraid to make mistakes, um, 'cause that's how you learn. But actually she wants, she's wanting our team to become the best version of themselves.
And I think that's what we are doing in coaching. We want people to believe in themselves, believe they have the answers, and be their best version of themselves they can be. So I really liked,
Louise: well on that theme, I was listening to something yesterday on the radio. I think it's Radio five Live, and obviously the new football season starting managers are coming in.
But one of them was talking about a new manager, one of the Premier League clubs. I think it was a Spurs. But saying what's so important is that the. Team come wanting to be coached by that person, that that relationship that they have that's interesting with the coach is so critical. And I think that comes down to what we were saying earlier about, uh, listening and really getting to know somebody by, you know, that level two listening, you build that relationship and if they feel that they can come to as a manager.
And talk to you about what's on their mind. Those, those things which are interfering with the, um, potential. That's what's so important.
Hilary: And, and there's an element of care as well as a coach, I think caring about the outcome for your coachee. And, and that's another thing they say about Sarina, that she, she's been described as, um, somebody who cares deeply about her team.
And I think if you care deeply about the people you're trying to help coach. You're wanting them to get the very best for themselves. Yeah. Um, make, makes you a good coach. Mm-hmm.
Louise: And I think the more you coach, the more you create a coaching culture. Yeah. And that's, you know, I think again, what the lionesses have, they really support one another the whole time.
So Really? Yeah. Good. Great. Okay. So, um. We've loved, well, I've enjoyed this. Yeah. Big chat about coaching. Hope you have. It's just nice to chat away actually, isn't it? About what we think. Um, and I hope everybody listening's enjoyed listening to us and you know, as we've reflected on why coaching is such a critical skill for a leader.
Uh, we've mentioned our programs in the session, uh, we are running an ILM level five program. Which will start in November. Um, so if any of you're really interested to know more about that, please contact us, um, on consalia.com or look in our website. Um, you know, and we'd love to talk to you more about what we do in all of our coaching approaches.
So yeah, that would be great. But I think we should finish with a question. I think, you know, we are coaches. Let's finish with a question and a question for all of you listening as well, which I think is, you know, which conversation. From this week or maybe last week, 'cause we're early in the week, but which conversation recently would've gone differently if you'd used a coaching model or a coaching question to progress that conversation.
So I think that's really important to think about. What could you have done differently recently with a coaching conversation? Good question. Yeah. So let's leave it at that, shall we? Okay. Thanks Natalie. Thanks, Hillary. Thank you both. Okay, great.