#215 – Looking back on 10 years at Consalia w/ Dr Louise Sutton

Full episode transcript: 

​Please note that transcription is done by AI and may contain errors.

​

 

 

Phil: Okay. Well, this is a, a huge, um, episode We're just about to record, isn't it, Louise? It's, uh, to celebrate your 10 years with Consalia, who would've thought we would've made that?

Louise: Who would've thought? Yes.

Phil: Anyway, welcome to the Sales Transformation podcast to celebrate the last 10 years. So why don't we start right at the very beginning and, um, you know, how come you, you joined us, uh, all those years ago?

Because I, I think that in itself is quite an interesting piece of the jigsaw.

Louise: Yeah. Um, okay. So, um, before I joined Consalia, I was working at Sony Mobile, um, heading up the sales academy or commercial academy. And, um, we had introduced the executive masters programme for the top talent as a programme for the top talent, um, globally, um, within Sony Mobile.

And, um, so that's really how I first came across, um, Consalia because I was looking for a programme we could bring in. Um, I attended a, a, a session, um, you know, to promote the programme, which was being run by Ian in, um, Westminster on a very cold November morning. I remember. Um, I nearly didn't go because it was such a cold wet November morning.

Um, but anyway, just hearing about the Exec Master's programme, I was immediately, um, inspired because there was so much, um, about that programme, the philosophy of the programme, which really, um, resonated with me in terms of, uh, my coaching practise and in particular about reflective practise and critical thinking and the work-based learning elements.

So really, uh, inspired what I heard. And then to cut a long story short, we brought Consalia into, into Sony Mobile and ran the, the exec masters programme. Um, and then, um, as that was coming to an end and as the, uh, commercial academy, uh, was being reviewed by Sony, um, because there was just, they were, you know, Chinese incumbents coming in and bringing Sony down in terms of, um, mobile phone sales.

Um, the academy director role became available at Consalia, so, um, we had a big conversation about it and here I am, and it has been 10 years, so I probably didn't think I'd be here for 10 years. When we first spoke about, um, coming into, um, to be, to take on that Academy director role and at the time I think there were two cohorts running on the exec masters.

Phil: Right? Yeah, I know.

Louise: So huge difference now in our student numbers, um, from when I joined and of course all the apprenticeship programmes and the coaching programmes. So lots happened, but

Phil: no, lots

Louise: happened since. Yeah. But that's how I'm here. I'm here because of the, um, the exec masters. Really? Yeah.

Phil: Yeah. No, it was a, in a way it was a happy coincidence that, or yeah.

I dunno if it's coincidence, but you know, the situation you had at Sonia, I think Geraldine who was heading up the academy at the time, you know, she, she was ready to step down.

Louise: Mm-hmm.

Phil: And so, yeah. Amazing.

Louise: Serendipitous really, isn't

Phil: it? It was serendipitous. That was the word I was looking for.

Louise: Yeah.

Phil: Um, I mean it started off really small.

I mean, at that time in alia's business, the academic side of what we're doing was quite a small part of what we did. Um, and there was certainly some sort of. Challenges on, on the way and to try and grow it into what it is today. Um, so do you, do you want to talk us through what some of those early challenges were and apart from working with film?

I

Louise: don't have to remember, but Okay. Um, so obviously when I joined the, um, apprenticeship levy had been announced and we saw this as a real opportunity to, um, develop a degree programme in business to business sales. And, you know, it just aligned with Consalia's mission to professionalise sales. And there hasn't been a degree programme, there still isn't a degree programme in sales that isn't an apprenticeship in England or in the uk.

And you know, very much one of the things we, um, felt was important to help professionalise sales was to have a, an academic programme, a degree programme to help young people enter sales, um, by choice. You know, not by falling into it once they've done a marketing degree, but by choosing to do a, a degree in sales.

So it was a really fantastic opportunity to develop the degree apprenticeship. Um, but you know, even putting the bid into the government was the first challenge because they didn't recognise sales as a profession. Um, they, I dunno if you remember Phil, but we put the bid in for the business to business sales degree and they came back saying, we should be looking at the trade sales, um,

Phil: the

retail,

Louise: yeah.

Phil: Whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah.

Louise: It was trade sales initially.

Phil: Was it trade sales?

Louise: Yeah. Um, so, you know, we had to really work hard with the government to, um. Help them appreciate the complexity of business to business sales and that it, it did reach the level that was required for a degree level programme. And we, we did that through the, um, support of the Trailblazer Group, which was the most amazing group of, um, seasoned sales professionals, sales leaders who were also passionate about, um, developing sales as a profession and wanting to have a degree in sales.

So, I mean there, when I think about that trailblazer group, I always smile because those meetings were incredible. Um, just getting everybody in the room with so much passion and enthusiasm and commitment. And it really did need commitment because there were so many challenges along the way in developing the apprenticeship, but everyone kept going and persevered and you know, and we got there, but it was a much harder slog and I think slog is the right word than we ever thought it would be, um, to develop the programme.

So we put the bid in, in, um, April, 2016.

video: and

Louise: We got approval of the standard at the end of that year. And then developing the assessment plan just took,

Phil: that was the big problem, wasn't it?

Louise: And the funding, 'cause initially they gave us reduced funding, so we had to appeal on the funding. So there were many hurdles, as you said, to, um, to really get the degree programme up and running.

Um, but we started our first cohort in the February of 2018. And you know, that's another day. I just remember so clearly when we were sat in the room at Middlesex University waiting for the apprentices to come into the room and then just seeing them all come in and appreciating it really was happening because we honestly, at some point yeah, we didn't think it might.

Phil: Um, just a couple of things to add to what you were saying. 'cause I, I was part of the Trailblazer group. I think we were, I mean, you, you were project leading that whole group mm-hmm. But, uh, LY was there as an sme. Mm-hmm. You know, sort of taking the voice of the sme, what was interesting 'cause you had some very large corporates there, and you had some very strongly opinionated people.

Um, but actually when it came to defining the knowledge, skills, and behaviours that you needed to, you know, create the standard, it was surprisingly, it, it just came together. I thought fairly, you know, fairly well. I, I didn't think there was too many egos that got into that process that said, no, that's rubbish or whatever.

Louise: I, I remember the, the first meeting it was kind of like, well, we don't call it that and this is the way we do it. We do it, and this is our sales methodology and this is ours. And there was so many views coming up. And then I think, you know, Graham Davis was the chair Yeah. And he was just like, we're gonna have to compromise to make this work.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And as soon as that kind of was set as the way forward, everybody did, and then we decided to kind of go with the, um, I guess the sales, a kind of traditional sales cycle

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: To develop the knowledge, skills and behaviours. Yeah. But yeah, the first meeting I was like, Ooh, this might be tricky. But then, then it just moved forward.

Yeah. And, um, they were a fantastic group.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: Yeah.

Phil: No, they really were. It was, it was a fun group to um, to, uh, to, to work with. But I, you also mentioned the how are you going to evidence the, the, uh, knowledge skills and behaviours and that, that was quite tricky, that part of it as well. Yeah. I know that caused you a few, um, sleepless nights perhaps, but, um, but you know, you did it

Louise: well, we did it.

The group did it. Yeah. Yeah. It was, um,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: You know, I, I, I wrote about, um, the Trailblazer Group being a real community apprentice. Yeah. It was, it, it really was, uh, a great, yeah. Um, and everybody learned, you know, people, I remember when we were talking about, um, you know, using digital selling and, and leveraging digital selling became one of the skills and, um, or digital skills.

And, um. I, you know, I just remember Graham and some of the, yeah, the, the, the leaders of sales learning from those who were there talking about how they use digital selling already. So there was a great learning going on, even in the Trailbla group, which was fantastic.

Phil: Yeah,

Louise: yeah.

Phil: No, it was, it was, it is a big moment.

And I, you know, at a personal level, I remember when we got that letter, I think from the, is it ate?

Louise: It was if a, at

Phil: the time. Was it ate at the time? Yeah. Yeah. And saying that it had been approved. And for me that was, that was just massive.

Louise: It was huge. Yeah.

Phil: Really huge. It was a great start. So that was in when?

2000 and,

Louise: uh, so the, we got the standard approved for development in 2016.

Phil: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then launched, launched the programme and launched in 2018.

Louise: Yeah.

Phil: And, uh, I think since then, uh, yeah, the programme has grown. And I know that you've, you've sort of done a, a resume of some of the, uh, achievements in the 10 years since, uh, since you joined.

So I wonder if you could just talk through some of those achievements.

Louise: Wow. Um, so what was really interesting when we. Had launched the level six, the degree apprenticeship was that, um, you know, obviously we were involving the line managers in the tripartite reviews and talking to them about the programme.

And our apprentices were going back to the organisations with their work-based projects and talking about some of the frameworks that they had, um, learned about on the programme, that we realised that there was a, a demand or a, you know, many of the sales leaders were saying we would like to do something similar.

So we also put in a bid to, um, I guess tailor what was already existing as a senior leader apprenticeship to be one for senior sales leaders to really pick up on the challenges that sales leaders have. And so we developed that programme and we started that, um, also at the end of 2018, um, which was fantastic.

So then we did get some of the managers of the apprentices on our level six coming onto the level seven. Right. Um, which just felt right to me that they were learning also, um, yeah. About some of the frameworks, but also really developing their own leadership skills through, um, being on the sales, uh, the senior sales leader programme.

So that was fantastic. Um, and obviously we've kept that going. We've kept both programmes going in parallel until, um, you know, last year when we heard that there was gonna be the defunding of the senior leader programme, which is heartbreaking, but, um, that's, that's where we are. Yeah. So we've got our last few cohorts just finishing on, on that programme, but that was 2018.

Um, so it was a big year, you know, starting level six and starting,

Phil: yeah, starting level. So I didn't, I thought it was the year after we started level seven. Seven. Yeah. No, it was at

Louise: the end of end,

Phil: at the end of that. Yes. So that's heck of a lot that was achieved in 2018.

Louise: Yeah. And then, um, you know, uh, we had COVID.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: So that was huge.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: Um, and obviously very, very quickly we had to, um, learn how to, um, develop our workshop content, which has all been developed for face-to-face workshops. Yeah. Which we, you know, is always our preference to, to bring everybody together in the room and have fantastic conversations about whatever content we're delivering.

But we had to, um, modify that for online learning. So we learned very quickly how to do that. And, um, you know, the, the request came through very clearly from all the employers that we really must keep this going for all their apprentices because it was so critical for them.

Phil: Was there a legal obligation for us to do that?

'cause when you enter the, you know, we couldn't, we had to do it. I mean, we had no choice.

Louise: We had No, I think you're right. We would've had to have done it because if you can't deliver, you'd need to find a solution. So obviously the solution was to, to move it all online, but it was really tough for those that started the programme.

Yeah. Online, they hadn't had the opportunity to bond with their cohort to really get to know them. And for the cohorts that were involved at the beginning of COVID, they only then got to a face-to-face workshop in year three. So they've gone through two years of, you know, online learning.

Phil: Incredible.

Louise: It's so much harder

Phil: for

Louise: them.

Phil: It's not easy to do a two day workshop online, as we know. I mean, you Yeah. In terms of, you know, just interfacing with a screen. Yes. You've got that virtual connection with the tutor, but it's, it's hard.

Louise: Yeah, I know. And obviously we couldn't do two days, so you broke it into chunks and tried to, to spread it out so that they could achieve the same level of, of, uh, of learning.

But that was, yeah, that was quite something. Um, and uh, yeah, during that period, I also, uh, started my doctorate, which was quite exciting. Uh, you know, on a personal level. Yeah. To be able to. To begin that. And I found that really helpful during COVID. It was something to turn to, you know, when you couldn't do very much, it was you walking or reading really, wasn't it?

So, um, I don't know. It was, it was very good to really get stuck into thinking about, um, yeah, my, my, my thesis. So that was quite,

Phil: yes, I was writing the book at the time.

Louise: Yeah.

Phil: And I decided to write, but you're right, that pandemic did give us options to do other things. Same.

Louise: Two, two. Yeah. And, uh,

Phil: but it's incredibly quick.

You, you quickly that you did your doctorate.

Louise: Uh, I

Phil: mean

Louise: it was two years.

Phil: Two years

Louise: because it was really developed through the public works. Public works were the apprenticeships of course. So that, you know, is recognised as being a part of the research. So you are critiquing what you've delivered rather than doing new research.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: So that was helpful. Um,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: In fact, when I went to see what I could do, I thought I would see if I could do a master's programme. And, um, Darryl Brown law said, oh no, you can do, you could try and do a doctorate. And I said, can I do it in a year and a

Phil: year?

Louise: Yeah. So I only want to do a year. And he said, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But of course you can't. So I wouldn't, I might not have started if I've known it was two, but I actually think it's been incredibly helpful to have done that to then support our apprentices who are going through their programmes. Right. Yeah. I can really relate to, um, the challenge of working.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And studying, you know, working and, and doing a, you know, quite an intensive programme of work.

So it has helped me, I think, really appreciate what they're going through. Um, when, when they've had some stressful times. Um, so, and I completed that in 2023, which was fantastic. And I think during that time, you know, people, our students were starting to come back, which was really good. Um, and we'd also developed, I forgot to say we'd developed a level five coaching programme.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: You know, coaching being something which I really believe in, you know, the benefits of, of setting up a coaching culture within your team or organisation and just really providing that coaching support on a daily basis. Um, from a, you know, a leader or a manager to their team. So, um, I'm absolutely thrilled that we could get this programme off the ground.

And so we run this level five, um, coaching for sales, um, which, um, you know, any, any of our students who've been on that programme have really, uh, enjoyed and

Phil: Absolutely.

Louise: Um,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: Yeah. Which has been fantastic. And you know, on that note, the coaching module that we have in our level seven programme has always been one of the ones that has perhaps whet the appetite for people to then come and do this level five coaching programme so they can get their own, um, coaching accreditation.

Um, so that's another programme that we brought into the academy.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: Which has been fantastic. Um, and then because apprenticeships. Came under the kind of remit of Offstead. We also had to embrace, um, an Ofsted inspection, which we had our first full Ofsted inspection in 20 February, 2024. Um, which is another one of those moments when your heart stops when you get the letter saying, right, we're coming in.

Or in fact, it was a call, wasn't it? You got the call, I

Phil: think. I think so.

Louise: You got the phone call.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And um, so that was, uh, quite an intensive week. Um, but with the most amazing outcome.

Phil: It, it was incredible. Yeah. I know that the team were totally overwhelmed, blown over, I think by the feedback they were getting from the employers and from the students.

Yeah. And it was just amazing.

Louise: Yeah.

Phil: A lot of work. Um, but actually I think they quite enjoyed being here as well. Sat in the conference room for a day or two.

Louise: Boy, yeah. It was, um, more than a day or two,

Phil: was it?

Louise: Well, it was three days.

Phil: Was it? Three days? Okay.

Louise: Um, yeah, no, I think everyone was blown away by the support that came from the employers and the That's right.

Um, absolutely fantastic. And so, yeah, so Ofsted outstanding, which, you know, has to be up there as a huge achievement, I think for the whole academy.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And Consalia. Um, and you know, we learned, we learned a lot from it as well. You know, just, I think, um, or have learned through adapting to how many different ways you are, um, audited in effect.

Yeah. Through, um, through the apprenticeships. 'cause there are many bodies which

Phil: take an interest.

Louise: Take an interest, and, um, lots of reporting back and lots of reviews. So, um, that's always been something we've had to take on board, which of course with the, when I joined wasn't part of the, the role at all for the Yeah.

Other than the university quality processes. Um, so that was 2024. Um, and then Skills England also started to form at the back end of 2024, second half of 2024. So we knew changes were coming, um, as a result of, of that. Um, but yeah, 2025 was, um, I guess, uh, when they defunded the level seven, so that, that was.

It was heartbreaking A big blow It was heartbreaking.

Phil: I mean, it is

Louise: such an amazing programme, not just for us, but for so many training providers. And, you know, I, I totally understand why, you know, there is an emphasis on bringing in younger people into training employment. You know, it is really important with so many, um, people who are not, um, in education, training or employment.

But, um, for me, if you bring so many people in, you've got to have the right leadership and coaching support, just as I've been talking about. So to just remove that funding and also for the employers who had been, had brought that programme in to their, um, you know, their sort of development of their own employees, it was significant to take that away from them.

It's, it's been quite hard, I think for a number of people to adjust to that.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: But I do feel that all these young people who are going to hopefully be coming into whatever apprenticeship programme they start, they still need the right leadership support.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And somehow that just has gone well. The funding has gone for that.

And I know, um, you know, skills England and the government want employers to, to manage that internally, but they're putting so many pressures on employers in other ways that we know that learning and development and is gonna be one of the areas Well, we know already that it's being hit.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: So it's just, to me, it just seems so shortsighted.

Um,

Phil: yeah,

Louise: because I

Phil: agree.

Louise: How can you, you know, we, we've seen it through the apprenticeships. We've seen it through talking to the employers. If you have the right support. For your apprentice that makes the difference in whether an apprenticeship is successful or not. You know, I called it the apprenticeship environs in, in my doctorate.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: It is so important to have the right environment for an apprentice to thrive, to make sure they can put all that theory into practise. Um, you've got to have the right people supporting the apprentice for it to work.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And um, that's where I feel this potentially gap emerging. Um,

Phil: I mean they, they can still do the masters, they can still do the post grad cert Absolutely.

Programme. They can still do the coaching ILM. Yeah. But of course it doesn't have, the levy funding

Louise: doesn't

Phil: have anything and so the the cost to the employer are going to be higher, that's for sure. Yeah.

Louise: Yeah. So,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: So we'll see. I can see, I'm sure a gap will start to emerge and then hopefully people will start to appreciate that they have to, as you say, fund it themselves if they can.

But um, it's a tough environment out there, isn't it?

Phil: It is. Yeah.

Louise: So, um, but then this year, so this year, um, you know what we, um, put in motion in 2025 but launched this year was our level four pathway.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: So that apprentices who have completed the sales executive, the level four sales executive apprenticeship, can join our Level six programme, um, in year two because we mapped the KBS and the learning from the level four onto our first year of our level six programme.

And, um, through the last validation programme with the university agreed a pathway into year two. So we had our first intake on, um, this level four pathway into level six in February of this year. And that was so exciting. I think going back to why did we develop the apprenticeship? Yeah. You know, we always wanted to set up a career pathway in sales through the apprenticeships.

And we, we are doing that. So, you know, we've got the level four pathway into the level six other apprenticeships that are out there are the level three. Mm-hmm. Um, that's gonna be redeveloped as is the level four. But we'll still have that pathway to enable those that have done those earlier apprentice apprenticeships to come onto the level six if they want to, and their employers support them.

And, you know, I am just, to me it's just like we've done it. We've got that pathway now, that career pathway that takes them all the way up to a degree level and um. Yeah. And

Phil: we've got this great partnership going with tact TMI as well, I think too.

Louise: Yes.

Phil: And that's also interesting to sort of collaborate in the training and development world with others that have been specialising in other parts of the learning journey.

Louise: So Yeah, that's right. In the, um, four earlier,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: Uh, sales apprenticeships, so, you know, um, yeah, it's fantastic. So you can go all the way through to degree level and obviously our degree, um, again, another partnership is with Middlesex University who we deliver, um,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: Uh, the, uh, exec, masters and postgraduate programmes with, so, um, yeah.

So I'm really, I'm really excited because the apprentices who have come on this level four pathway are loving it and really have said how much they're, um, learning from, I guess you've got a greater opportunity in the level six programme. You've got more work-based projects to put that learning into practise, the theory into practise.

You know, every module has a project, every module requires them to put that theory into practise. Yeah. And, um, just hearing them talk about it is, you know, it's just very rewarding to be honest. Yeah.

Phil: So are there any sort of, can anyone do it come onto the level six, having done a level four? So if they've done level four or are there certain barriers to them coming onto the Level six programme or,

Louise: um, no.

So in, in theory, yes, we do have a look at their, um, a couple of examples from their learning journals, right. And look at their project, um, or case studies from level four. Yeah. Um, and that is part of the application process. Yeah. But

Phil: yeah, anyone

Louise: can do it. And obviously employer supported because it's going through the levy,

Phil: but irrespective of how long they've been in sales for, Do you still need to sort of have four to five years experience?

Louise: I think that the key thing is that they're gonna be learning

Phil: new skills.

Louise: New skills, okay. And new knowledge. So it really depends on the role and their experience that they've been in. Okay. And that on their level four

Phil: programme,

Louise: we have to evidence that it's all about new knowledge.

Phil: Right.

Louise: And new skills.

Phil: Okay. Okay. Right. So, um, I know you've been doing some maths on the number of students we now have.

Louise: Oh yeah.

Phil: Is it, is it the right point to bring that In course because it just shows from those early cohorts where we had, I don't know, 20 people, 17? Can't remember on

Louise: paper. No. We started smaller and then we built it

Phil: up.

And we built it up.

Louise: Yeah. I think, you know, I mean, you know me Phil, I'll always want to make sure it works before we kind of

Phil: go

Louise: in with too many students. So we did start smaller. Um, yeah. So what's, you know, lovely to, to kind of as you go through the numbers is to appreciate that we've got over 250 graduates now from the business to business sales degree, which is the sales B2B sales professional apprenticeship.

Um, and they're the graduates. And we've also got, you know, another sort of over 200 that are currently on the programme, on

Phil: programmes.

Louise: So, um, typically we have two to three cohorts going through, um, the degree programme Yeah. Each year. Um, so yeah. But what's also fantastic is when you are on LinkedIn, you suddenly see where some of these earlier graduates have, have moved.

You know, some of them are with the same organisation, some aren't, but they've all had fantastic progression. Yeah. And you know, even more heartwarming is the fact that they'll still respond to some of our posts about the programme saying what a great start in their career it gave them. So as well as the numbers, I just love hearing what's happening to all the alumni, I have to say.

Um, and then on our level seven programme, we've got, uh, over 90 graduates.

Phil: Now

Louise: obviously the numbers are now winding down. Yeah. So we'll, we'll get to over a hundred senior sales leaders.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: Um, probably about 120. I think it'll be before, um, the funding stops. Um, and similarly, you know, lots of referrals, lots of support for, um, their apprentices.

Have to also mention the Exec Masters programme. I know. 'cause that's continued.

Phil: It is. And

Louise: we've grown the cohorts with those two.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: So, you know, the exec masters, it's still a professional practise, um, master's programme. So very much an emphasis on the work-based projects and, um, and they go all the way through to that, um, master's level with a, their own thesis at the end.

Yeah. So some fantastic research projects which come outta that programme, which all really, you know, they do all support their organisations and you know, I know you have many on your, um, master cast, so the

Phil: Yes, that's right. I love the master cast. Just hearing what those final projects are and, and the innovation that you see.

Louise: Mm-hmm.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: Mm-hmm.

Phil: Across all sorts of different topics.

Louise: Yeah. And I'll tell you what we haven't mentioned. Um, yeah, we should just remind you about It's the Peter Criden Award.

Phil: I know. Yes.

Louise: Yeah. So of course we had the Peter Criden award, which I think was in 2020. Three or 22, actually, 2022, I can't

Phil: remember when we had it for the first time.

Louise: Which really takes, as you say, that innovation from those musters projects and follows through to see, so what have they done? Yeah. What I love about that is, is the so what, so you did that research and what happened?

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: And what's it really done for your organisation? So that was a fantastic, um, award that we set up.

Yes. We've had, um, yes, some absolutely brilliant submissions. And again, it, it just helps you follow through what the, in this case, the students are doing once they finish their programme, and how they are still taking the, the learning forward. And to use a Peter CRI term, you know, generating that, uh, learning reach and that ripple effect of the learning.

Um, so it, it's just, when you read about it, you just think, and we helped we help 'em do this.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: You know, we contributed to this happening. And it's just such a good feeling, isn't it?

Phil: It is. I think, uh, yeah. I think we share the same, uh, feelings about the really, it's sort of helping people unlock their potential.

Louise: Yeah.

Phil: And we provide, I think, a fantastic environment for them to do that, where they feel it's a safe environment for them to learn new skills, new, you know, the cohorts are always very supportive of each other. But, um, it's, it's, when you see examples of people reaching now very, sen I mean, we've got lots of managing directors now Who have been through the masters. We've got people on main boards of publicly quoted companies. I mean, um, so I think that we could say that, that, you know, it's been a highly successful intervention for the students to have gone through it and, uh, and benefited as they've done.

Louise: Yeah. And I think, you know, you just made me think that, again, whilst it's hard work, it does give people opportunity to step back and think, you know, the whole critical reflection But also the action research projects, which we, you know, uh, keep up the pedagogy of the programmes. It, it, it changes the way they think. It helps THem think more deeply, but I think it gives them that opportunity they have to make the time to do the thinking.

Phil: Yeah.

Louise: Which as we know in this kind of the VUCA world, the busy

world

we're in, it's hard.

It's hard. Yeah. So it's almost, you're providing.

an

opportunity. They might, you know, yes, they have to make the time, but you're providing an opportunity for them to really look at things through a different lens. Um, make the time to be more collaborative with their teams and work as a team with their teams and Yeah.

But it is incredible when you look at the progression of all those students on the, uh, on all our programmes actually, and a lot of them will still say that they're, they continue with that, uh, deep reflective practise that has made such a difference to them.

Phil: Yeah. So I, can we talk about the future in any way, Louise, and, you know, the revolution of the programme, because I know that we're going through a process at the moment too.

Yeah.

Louise: Yeah, well, it is really interesting, obviously with ai. Um,

Phil: yeah,

Louise: so we have gone through all the, um, level six, all the modules for our B2B sales apprenticeship programme, and have, um, identified where we can obviously talk to them more about AI and, and how it's being used within sales, relevant to those modules, but also in the assessments, how they can use AI for the assessments ethically and correctly.

Um, so we've threaded AI through every single module, which I think is fantastic. Yeah. So I do feel like we've, you know, we, we always review the modules actually every time we deliver them, there'll always be some feedback and we make sure that what we're, um, uh, passing onto the, uh, the apprentices is relevant and current, but we've given it this major kind of, let's just check everything and where should we be using ai.

So I'm really thrilled that we've got, um, clear, um, structure of the use of AI to use it correctly, wisely. Ethically, obviously that ties into, um, the intellectual authenticity mindset that you've, uh, came out of your research, um, which is, you know, fantastic. So I think, um, and that's something we'll have to, you know, because AI is changing so much and changing what we do so much, we will continue to review after each module.

Is this still more, can we bringing more in? But I, I feel that we're there and we're current, which is fantastic. Um, we're obviously looking, um, how we can fill, um, the, the gap that the level seven senior sales leader programme is going to leave. And we do have the exec masters and we're, you know, able to deliver that as postgraduate certificate.

So it's under a year of learning, which people can take on, which is the first three modules Yeah. Which are three very impactful modules for sales leaders, um, including the coaching module as module three. Yeah. Um, so people can take that as under a year. So 10, 10 to 11 months. And then if they are really inspired and enthused by that learning, they can then go on to complete it as a master's programme.

So there's, you know. That's always been there, but we are, we're kind of, you know, certainly trying to promote that more. Um, and we are looking, um, to see if we can bring in another apprenticeship to, to help, um, you know, again, fill that gap. And there's a lot we can do around strategic selling and account management.

So we're looking to see how we can, um, try and, uh, identify the right standard to help with that. Um, the coaching, you know, is still, um, level five coaching programme is still, um, available. So again, we are really trying to do more with that. And, uh, so there's a lot we can do, um, and we need to do because you really need to help, I think, uh, sales leaders because it's, we, we hear how tough it is out there for them in this world.

So I think to have the right support through, um, current theories, current frameworks, learning everything that we can do to help people adapt to, uh, the changing world of sales, I think is what we need to do. Yeah. As you say, the future of work is, it's evolving and we need to make sure our programmes evolve with it, so that's what we're doing.

Yeah.

Phil: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I think it's been the most incredible journey you've been on, Louise, and you must feel, you know, it's been a real accomplishment, you know

Louise: what you've done. Yeah. It was, you know, it was really lovely to, as you say, to go through year by year and think what happened that year, and then you're like,

Phil: that, oh, well done on doing that.

Louise: But, um,

Phil: yeah.

Louise: But yeah, it's a long time. So

Phil: it is a long time. I think quite, quite often people say that they, they didn't expect to be at Consalia necessarily for that long, but people surprise themselves. They do. But, um, uh, but we do have a fantastic team.

Louise: I was just gonna say that what we haven't mentioned is the team.

Yeah. And the team is absolutely brilliant. And, you know, our tutors across all our programmes are sales experts, you know? Yeah. We, we bring in people who know the world of sales and then they start to uh, you know, we help 'em to become tutors on the programme and they are really knowledgeable and have all that experience they can pass on.

Yeah. And you know, we have this, um, the Consalia way of delivery, so they all coach and we have a coaching approach Yeah. To how we facilitate our modules and Yeah. They're just the best. It's the best team, isn't

Phil: it? Yeah.

Louise: It's,

Phil: and it's in a way, it's, it's, you know, I know Paul was there at the, at the beginning with the Trailblazer group and he became a programme director and we're gonna celebrate his final retirement now, I think.

Yeah. From

Louise: the programme.

Phil: From the programme next month, isn't it? So, um, but that is also, I think, been a brilliant part of the journey that you've, you know, the people we've collaborated with have been amazing.

Louise: Yeah. And they all provide something different. Yeah.

Phil: It's

Louise: a

Audio: great

Phil: team.

Louise: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Phil: That's great.

Well, thank you Louise, for joining us on this. Thank you. This episode. Uh, look forward to the next 10 years.

Louise: I'm not gonna say anything,

Phil: you're not gonna say anything on that one,

Louise: but, um, but thanks. Yeah, it's been lovely to kind of reflect

and

remember. So thanks Phil. Okay,

​

 

​